FAITH: I went on holiday, normal, with low-risk of health problems. And then I come back, I'm obese.

MELODY: What?

FAITH: And at risk of heart disease and diabetes.

MELODY: What did you do?

FAITH: That's what my BMI calculator told me, okay?

MELODY: Oh, okay.

FAITH: And then my brain chose that moment to remind me of when my doctor told me, "Oh, you know, if you just lose two more kilograms, that's when you'll be healthy."

MELODY: *making groaning noises* I shouldn't be making noises like that. Let me verbalise my noise. It's, it's kind of funny, right? Like, you know, our brain knows one thing, but then we still react contrary to what we know, because you and I both know that the BMI isn't accurate. They've tweaked the formulas, yes, but it was formed in the 1800s to calculate the average size of a white man. So we know that it's not indicative of whether we're healthy or not, no matter what your doctor says, we'll, we'll talk about that in a different way.

But it's, so like, it's funny, right? Like, you know, even though we know one thing, but yet when we see what our BMI is or what our weight is, we can still be happy, devastated and it still affects us.

FAITH: Here's the thing. What worried me when I saw my BMI was not even about the health issues.

MELODY: Okay.

FAITH: What struck me at that moment was whether the extra kilograms meant that I look fat. And then immediately, I felt fat. For the first time in a long time, I was holding my belly rolls, you know, like, like my belly rolls, and I was feeling angry. I was disgusted. And then that made me feel even more sad and disappointed because I've been working so hard at being gentle with my body, with myself.

MELODY: Which is funny, right? Like, because I'm guessing, well, I'm looking at you now, and I'm like, you really don't look any more different than you were before your holiday. But in your head, because you're like, oh, I feel fat. I am fat. And suddenly, what you're seeing is completely different. And then, all right, then we talk about it. And then what happens is that you, because what you think, what you feel is completely different. Suddenly, you go, oh, I need to go on a diet.

FAITH: There's a myth that we are healed when we are completely rid of the distorted beliefs and triggers that once hurt us. And that may be true sometimes, but...

MELODY: When you think about it right, like you know, when you, when you have a cut, you know you're healed when it's, you know, when your skin is back to normal.

FAITH: Yeah, but that's your, that's your body, right? But this is your brain. So, and that may be true sometimes, but it's not an all or nothing, black or white kind of a rule, right? This is living life in the grey.

Oh, okay. This is a good time to do the intro.

Welcome to Life in the Grey, a Mums At The Table micro podcast, where we try to understand what makes us tick and how it impacts our lives and our relationships.

Okay, so back to what I was saying. We know that healing is happening, not because we never cycle back into old patterns, but by our awareness that we are in an old pattern. So, I like this analogy, right? In my head, I have this, I imagine it this way.

MELODY: Okay.

FAITH: There's a super highway that's had decades to be reinforced so that it's incredibly smooth and it's exceptionally easy to access. And this highway tells me I'm fat and that I should be on a perpetual starvation diet.

MELODY: Not a great highway.

FAITH: Not a great highway. Okay. Yah.

MELODY: How much toll do you have to pay?

FAITH: Meanwhile, there's this other path that I am trying to carve out right now. One that offers a broader perspective on health. One that recognises that BMI is just one of the many indicators. One that recognises that health doesn't just have one look.

MELODY: Okay.

FAITH: And this path is new. It's still a jungle out there. I still have a parang (machete) that I'm trying to cut away at, right? And that's not an easy path to get on. So, when we say that we still feel the need to diet, to look a certain way even though we've got all this knowledge that we've acquired, I don't see it as a symptom of lack of progress. I see it as a signal that that is just how hardwired these thought patterns are. Our brains just want to get on this super highway because it's easier. It's faster. But it doesn't mean that once we realise where we're on, we can't choose to get on the exit ramp and then get on that, like, working on that, you know, jungle pathway.

MELODY: I like that because we always think about, oh goodness, I have regressed or I have gone back to my old ways. But then you look back and you realise that, hang on, it's not that there isn't progress. There is progress. And so, the progress itself indicates hope. And I like that because, I mean, I think back to how I used to feel about my body, right? To how I feel now. And, well, there is a difference.

FAITH: So, what's the difference?

MELODY: Um…I didn't like my body initially. Growing up, I was told that I was too tall. Friends would tease me. They called me a lightning rod. So, oh, it's raining. Oh, it's okay. Melody is here. We don't need to worry. The lightning will strike her and not me.

FAITH: Kids can be so cruel.

MELODY: Yeah, kids, right? I would walk around with a hunch. Like, I would try to walk around to, like, you know . . .

FAITH: Make yourself smaller.

MELODY: . . . be their height which isn't very easy. But anyway, then I think, like you, belly rolls. Um, well, actually, still is my belly. It's not flat. My hair, it's not straight. My eyes, they're not big enough. Should I share all my insecurities? I think that's enough. [LAUGHS]

FAITH: All these, like, standards, right? Who says what is enough?

MELODY: You know what? But that, a lot of it, I wouldn't say all, but a lot of it was what I used to think about me. What about you?

FAITH: I was told I was fat by, let's call a spade a spade, by the bullies in school.

MELODY: Kids right?

FAITH: And then as a child.

MELODY: Lightning rod, fat.

FAITH: Yeah, I mean, it's bullying. I'm just going to call a spade a spade. And then as a child, with family, there's all these consistent warnings about don't eat too much because you're going to get fat, you know, and then.

MELODY: As a kid.

FAITH: Yeah, as a kid. Adults will tell you don't eat too much because you're going to get fat. If you get fat, nobody will want to date you. Yeah. Honestly, when I look at photos of myself then. I mean, when I look at photos of that little girl, she was not fat. But for most of my adult life, I carried that. I felt that I was fat.

MELODY: What's wrong with these people? Okay, sorry.

FAITH: Yeah, and to the point that I didn't like my body so much that I ended up hurting my body, right? But that's not where I am right now. I mean, I love my body right now. I love my body. But I still want to change it. Except I don't want to change it aesthetically. I want to change it to be more agile. I want to be stronger. I want to be more flexible. I want to be more energetic so that as I age into retirement, I want to be able to still walk and . . .

MELODY: Go up the stairs.

FAITH: . . . and be upright and lift things and carry things. Although as I'm doing all of these resistance training stuff, the other day someone told me, don't lift too much because I'm going to get big and then my husband won't like it when I'm big. I tell you, cannot be too big, cannot be too small, cannot be this. You know, I can't. I am done. Okay, this is my body. I only get one of it. So whatever I'm doing to make it healthy right now, whatever it looks like because of what I'm doing to make it healthy, it looks like what it looks like, whatever man. I am done. I am done trying to pursue someone else's approval.

MELODY: Sorry, I'm busting to say this, okay? And I know it's got nothing to do with body image, but you know, I’m a feminist. Can we go back to the fact that they said that, oh, your husband won't like it. What has, all of what—what… we do things to please our husbands? Is that what we're here for? So what? And what if your husband doesn't like it? What? He's going to upgrade, choose a different model? I'd like to think our relationships are deeper than that. Okay. I got that out of my system.

FAITH: That really got a rise out of you.

MELODY: Back to loving our bodies. I need to love the other person. Um, you know, I admire what you're saying. Like it's what you're saying is like, you know, I love my body. I love every part of it. You know, I, I cannot, I cannot bring myself to say that I love my body. But what I can say is that I've grown to accept it. So I still have an ideal, you know, as we say, like that flat tummy. But I do appreciate that my body, I appreciate my body. I accept my body. I appreciate my body. I don't know if I love it, but I appreciate it for the fact that I’m 45. But I do feel more active. I do feel stronger. I feel healthier now than I used to be when I was in my twenties, when I was trying to chase that ideal look.

FAITH: I love my body. I may not always like every single bit of it. So there's a subtle difference. So for me, body image had a very strong character component associated with it. It's a narrative that we still hear a lot of times.

MELODY: Okay.

FAITH: Fat people can lose all that fat if they really want to, if they make it a priority. Right? There's an implicit moral judgement. We are fat because of a character flaw. Fat people are the personification of a lack of discipline and willpower. Right? So…I have to ask myself, what is missing here? Is it will…or skill? Because tell me, right, who doesn't want to do well in their health, in their jobs, in their relationships? But doing well in these areas takes skill. And someone who is trying to lose weight can be some of the most dedicated, determined, disciplined people because they have not given up all these years. They keep trying time and time again to change their health, to eat better, to move better. They have been shamed over and over. But did anyone stop to check?

MELODY: People just call them lazy, even though they try so hard.

FAITH: But do they have the skills and the resources needed to be able to have a healthy relationship with food and exercise? And when I had that mindset shift, that was when I started to love my body more. When I realised it was not because of a character flaw.

MELODY: So it's not because you're lazy, that's why you're fat. So you're saying that you started thinking that it's because you're lacking the skill?

FAITH: Yup. I just needed to learn how to do better. And I hadn't learned it yet. I thought I knew it, but apparently I hadn’t. And being able to tap into the compassion gave me the space to be able to start to seek out the skills that I needed.

MELODY: Yeah, it's interesting, right? Because if people are lazy, we basically look down on them and go, "Oh, what a lazy person." But if a person doesn't know, we then try to educate them and we try to help them.

FAITH: Exactly, exactly. What about you? What helped you to change your views about your body?

MELODY: I think it has a lot to do with what I read and what I've been exposed to as I get older. Because, I mean, the reality is that there is a lot more body positivity kind of messaging that's out there now, right? I mean, how else would I have learned that BMI is not the be all and all? And there's a lot of advocates out there talking about the fact that your body, not everybody needs to look perfect. Not everybody is able to look perfect. And that everything that we see on the magazines, on TV, on other people, a lot of it is posed. A lot of it is deliberately done so that we see what we should be seeing. So I think a lot of that is the influence.

And there is another point and I feel a little bit awkward sharing it. I know it's not something that everybody will have. But I have the world's most wonderful husband. And he has, over the years, made me realise that he loves me and he accepts me no matter how I look. He loves me despite my warts, despite the things that I don't like about myself. He still loves me. And I think that just kind of boosts my confidence and my acceptance of who I am. Because if someone else accepts me, I should learn to accept myself better. And I'm not trying to say this in a whole hashtag blessed, oh look at how great I am. But it did help.

FAITH: It's interesting because my trauma ran so deep that it wasn't enough that someone told me I was enough. I had to believe it in myself that I am enough. It wasn't enough that there were people who loved me. I had to love myself first before I could believe that I was loveable.

MELODY: Because, yeah, maybe that's the difference. Because, yes, I don't like my body. But because I don't have that kind of trauma, even though I don't like my body, I still, I love myself.

FAITH: So you believed that you were worthy of love.

MELODY: Yes, definitely.

FAITH: And so when you experienced love, it just reinforced what you already had inside.

MELODY: Yeah.

FAITH: And brought it out.

MELODY: Oh Faith, I feel so sad hearing about how you believed about yourself.

FAITH: I'm not unique. You know, there's a whole bunch of people out there that... And this is something that has been very comforting for me, too. That because it's representation, too. It's representations, realising that I'm not the only one out there. I'm not the only one out there. And I'm also not the only one out there that found it really difficult at first to love myself. Yeah, trying to love myself. Giving love to myself at the very beginning was really difficult and hard. It felt wrong. It felt selfish. It felt like I was giving myself excuses, justifying, rationalising even.

It's not true. I want to say this. If anyone else out there is feeling that way because you're just starting out on your self-loving journey, and you're feeling weird, it's not true. Okay? It feels like that.

MELODY: It makes me want to cry.

FAITH: So...Okay. It's not where I am right now. And I am glad I went through that so that I can remind people. It is a part of the journey. You have to go through that. And it is weird and awkward at first, but it gets better. It does get better.

MELODY: We are all worthy to be loved.

FAITH: Yes.

MELODY: I haven't the journey, but I want to say it. We are all worthy to be loved. If you're listening, you are worthy.

FAITH: Yes. And one of the ways that worked for me at the beginning... For me, the small things that I tried to do, which was to... Every time I caught myself assessing how I looked, I made the conscious effort to then list out what my body was capable of. And then I thanked my body for working hard to keep me alive and active.

It could be something just...okay at the time when I did it, my brain said, this was silly and stupid. Like, you know, when I would like, you know, feel like, oh, this is so like, oh, disgustingly like tight and jiggly and I don’t… Then I'll be like, wait, stop.

MELODY: Okay.

FAITH: Thank you, tummy, for digesting my food and not having a tummy ache.

MELODY: It is a little bit awkward.

FAITH: I'm doing this and my brain's saying, you weirdo.

MELODY: Well, yes. But I guess you have to start somewhere.

FAITH: You know, I still do it, especially when I'm exercising. Sometimes I just, when I'm jump roping and I whip myself lots of times, I'm getting upset with myself and I'm like, no, it's okay. Good work. You keep going. No, you keep going. It's okay. But yah, this is some of the small things that I did. And this was one of the game changers.

MELODY: Okay.

FAITH: I culled my social media. I intentionally picked to follow only content creators that shared science-based, research-backed information that aligned with my values, that people are worthy of dignity and respect, regardless of the size of their bodies.

MELODY: There's not a lot of them around though, hey?

FAITH: You can find them. Because the funny thing about the algorithm is when you start looking for them and you start finding them, the algorithm will start feeding those kinds of information to you. That's why representation matters. There's a particular trend going around right now of fitness instructors who show before and after photos and they show you, this is what it looks like with good lighting. And when I suck my tummy in, and then this is what it looks like five seconds later, when I turn off the lights and I just let go.

MELODY: I love those because it's true. I love seeing those because like, you know, it's just like, oh, actually, I'm normal.

FAITH: It's posing. You know how to pose? Stand in front of a good lighting in front of a window and then all of a sudden you look like you've got like a...

MELODY: You don't think that, right? You don't think that it's really that. And it's actually something that I'm really trying to share with my son as well. Because he's only going to grow up to see Thor, Chris Hemsworth, oh look at all his muscles. But how does he know that that's real or not?

FAITH: Yeah, yeah. And so I'm very appreciative when they are going out there and sharing the truth. But we won't see it if we don't consciously try to look for it. And we have to want to get curious and want to look for it.

MELODY: So you're happy with who you are now?

FAITH: I am happy with who I am because when I look back, I could show you a photo of myself when I was starving myself and I got like really, really skinny. But that girl, she was losing her hair. She had nightmares every night. She thought the world hated her. She was hating herself.

MELODY: It's funny, right? You look good but really you don't...

FAITH: No, I'm keeping this little jiggly wobbly belly. Because now, honestly, I feel stronger. I feel stronger now physically, emotionally, mentally. I feel stronger now. And you know, I have to say this. That 20-something girl who was skinny, she did the best that she could with what she had at that point in time. And I will always love her. And the best place for her will be in my past.

MELODY: It's... I'm just thinking about the 20s me. And do I still want that look that the 20-year-old me wanted? And to be completely honest, I cannot say emphatically, oh no, I don't want to look like that anymore. I still wish I look better. But... but... There's a big but here. At the same time... I don't feel like...

FAITH: I just had that song going in my head. I like big butts.

MELODY: Not that butt. But well. I... do I... Do I want to put in that effort that it takes to look like that? Because anybody's body can look like that. It just depends on the regime, right? Can I be bothered to go through that regime that's required to look like that? No. So I don't love my body. But I've accepted it and I appreciate it. And I've got better things to do in my life.

FAITH: And here's the thing. Health does not just have one look. It... it feels like there's two camps. So one camp says you have to love your body no matter what. But there's this other camp that says having a healthy body image is making space for the uncomfortable feelings about our bodies, right? And finding ways to manage these feelings in a way that's not harmful. Like what I said earlier. I love my body. But I don't always like it. I don't always like different parts of it. So yeah, I have uncomfortable feelings. But then I find ways to manage it in methods that are not harmful.

MELODY: Yeah, I agree. Because I'll admit I'm not comfortable with how I look in a bikini. But does that mean I'm miserable? No, I'm still happy. I can keep up with my child. I can do activities with him. I feel energetic. I feel alive. My body is keeping up with my lifestyle.

So yeah, I guess living in the grey is about having a healthy body image but not loving every bit of it. Um, there are bits of me that I still want to change. But not to the point where I will sacrifice what I have. So it's there. Doesn't bother me.

FAITH: The way I love my body is to focus on functionality. I can still have fun jumping rope, even with a jiggly belly. I can still hug my loved ones with my cellulite thighs. And I can definitely enjoy foods from all the different cultures now that I am not starving myself.

MELODY: And I can play tag with my son. Maybe not as long as he wants me to, but I can actually do it.

FAITH: There you go. And this is a good space for us to wrap up. And this has been Life in the Grey, a micro podcast from Mums At The Table. If you have any thoughts, feedback, or just want to reach out, we would love to hear from you. Search for Life in the Grey. That's Grey with an e. And we will see you next month.